Discussion:
Caulking against rough surfaces
(too old to reply)
Colin Campbell
2017-11-27 00:27:38 UTC
Permalink
The subject says most of it, and I'm hoping the assembled wisdom here
will forgive me if it's OT for the group.
In my work, I install basement egress windows, which we make from vinyl
composite materials. The windows are replacements or upgrades, going into
foundations which can be of almost any age. Frequently, I have to caulk
the join between our smooth composite frame, and the ragged parging on
the exterior foundation wall, bridging gaps which can vary from 1/8 or
less, to more than 3/8" or more, often in a single run. I have yet to
find a way of running a good, clean bead, and when I try to tool the
result, the mess gets worse. I've alreadfy decided to buy myself a
dripless gun, but I'd be more than grateful for suggestions about pull/
push, angled vs. square cut tip, and any other thoughts you may have.

Cheers,
Colin
Leon
2017-11-27 00:30:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Colin Campbell
The subject says most of it, and I'm hoping the assembled wisdom here
will forgive me if it's OT for the group.
In my work, I install basement egress windows, which we make from vinyl
composite materials. The windows are replacements or upgrades, going into
foundations which can be of almost any age. Frequently, I have to caulk
the join between our smooth composite frame, and the ragged parging on
the exterior foundation wall, bridging gaps which can vary from 1/8 or
less, to more than 3/8" or more, often in a single run. I have yet to
find a way of running a good, clean bead, and when I try to tool the
result, the mess gets worse. I've alreadfy decided to buy myself a
dripless gun, but I'd be more than grateful for suggestions about pull/
push, angled vs. square cut tip, and any other thoughts you may have.
Cheers,
Colin
Caulking, practice makes perfect.
n***@aol.com
2017-11-27 09:46:44 UTC
Permalink
I agree.

It takes a LOT of practice to get really good at it. I have myself and one guy then do all the difficult caulking against bricks, rock and on faces masonry, etc. My other guys and none of my subs but my painter can lay a consistently sized bead that is nearly perfectly smooth.

In fact, my work was just barely presentable for years until I had a painter that was working for me help me get the hang of it. I caulked a lot for practice just to waterproof and filling cracks in areas that wouldn't be seen, and I do mean //a lot// before I could turn out really presentable work that would be considered professional appearance grade.

Ymmv of course, but make sure you buy a good quality caulk gun and good quality caulk or you won't stand a chance at a good job.

Robert
DerbyDad03
2017-11-27 11:54:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@aol.com
I agree.
It takes a LOT of practice to get really good at it. I have myself and one guy then do all the difficult caulking against bricks, rock and on faces masonry, etc. My other guys and none of my subs but my painter can lay a consistently sized bead that is nearly perfectly smooth.
In fact, my work was just barely presentable for years until I had a painter that was working
for me help me get the hang of it.
If someone helped you get the hang of it, then it's not only about the practice. There must have
been tips and techniques passed on from the other person. Can you share what he shared?
n***@aol.com
2017-11-28 06:17:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by DerbyDad03
Post by n***@aol.com
I agree.
It takes a LOT of practice to get really good at it. I have myself and one guy then do all the difficult caulking against bricks, rock and on faces masonry, etc. My other guys and none of my subs but my painter can lay a consistently sized bead that is nearly perfectly smooth.
In fact, my work was just barely presentable for years until I had a painter that was working
for me help me get the hang of it.
If someone helped you get the hang of it, then it's not only about the practice. There must have
been tips and techniques passed on from the other person. Can you share what he shared?
Some of the pointers posted already are valid. Some are not. Don't want to start a war, so I will tell you what works for me.

First, squeeze the caulk in the tube at the store. Some caulks go bad rapidly, or worse, are stored and handled improperly. I have had caulks in my storage that have gone bad in just a few months, in my tool box, about three. Unless it is the old fashioned paper tubes, the tubes for most sealers are plastic and should be pretty easy to squeeze and feel some movement.

Don't buy cheap caulk. Cheap caulk manufacturers use equipment that can introduce air bubbles into your caulk, and if you are pressed into putting a single pass, "no touching, no smoothing bead" you are screwed as the bubble will leave a hole.

Don't buy cheap caulk guns, or the really heavy duty guns. The cheap ones flex too much for you to get a good even squeeze on grip to discharge an even bead. The heavy duty caulk guns are actually for adhesive applications and push out the material tube too aggressively. Buy a medium priced gun with a quick release tab under the compression rod. The quick release tab works much better than the "no drip".

A few issues I didn't understand. First, the cut of the tub point must be CLEAN. Second, the cut needs to expose the exit hole to be not much larger than the crack/crease to be filled. Third, I put too much material on. Fourth, I didn't understand when to move fast or move slow.

So, cut the tip of the tube with a very sharp knife, box cutter, etc. The tip should be perfectly smooth and anywhere from about 30 to 45 degrees. I cut the heavier angles when I am caulking areas I have a hard time seeing the bead (windows, walls, etc.) but less shallow for horizontal surfaces where I am directly over the work. If you are caulking 1/8", then you should have an exit hole on the tip about the same. If you simply whack the end off the tip you will almost always put on too much material. Yet, I see guys hack a chunk off the tip and leave a big wide bead over a small crack. If the crack is irregular, caulk the small end first, cut the tip as needed to get to the wider sizes.

Put as little caulk on as needed, let the material flow out of the tube. Proper application is a combination of getting material out of the tube and using the tip to push it into the crack. On smooth surfaces (like cracks on inside walls, siding trims, etc.) I squeeze the gun hard and move fast. When caulking cracks in bricks and mortar, etc., I have the hold cut to the proper diameter and almost seal over the crack very slowly, leaving the caulk behind, level to the adjoining surfaces.

Cracking the irregular surfaces won't be so bad if you have the right amount of caulk coming out of the gun and then work slowly with an even amount of pressure. If you are applying properly you won't need much tooling. But... stuff happens. I use a wet finger, cleaned frequently with a wet rag. On really fine corners (like a kitchen cab refinish) I use my fingernail and apply enough pressure to cut the caulk into the corners. Don't use soap. If you have to put another coat of caulk on top of the existing, you have fouled the surface so it won't stick. Likewise, paint won't stick to soap either. Also, the sticky residue you leave behind can get sticky and attract dirt.

More than anything since today's caulks really stick well, practice on things that aren't appearance grade. Caulk can be impossible to get off of different surfaces so practicing on things you and others will see can be taking a pretty good chance.

Robert
-MIKE-
2017-11-27 16:23:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@aol.com
I agree.
It takes a LOT of practice to get really good at it. I have myself
and one guy then do all the difficult caulking against bricks, rock
and on faces masonry, etc. My other guys and none of my subs but my
painter can lay a consistently sized bead that is nearly perfectly
smooth.
In fact, my work was just barely presentable for years until I had a
painter that was working for me help me get the hang of it. I caulked
a lot for practice just to waterproof and filling cracks in areas
that wouldn't be seen, and I do mean //a lot// before I could turn
out really presentable work that would be considered professional
appearance grade.
Ymmv of course, but make sure you buy a good quality caulk gun and
good quality caulk or you won't stand a chance at a good job.
Robert
I like to think I've gotten pretty durn good at caulking over the years.
Like you said, all it takes is doing it a LOT to get the hang of it.
You also must be prepared with your clean-up materials, keep a "wet"
finger, and go fast and confident when finishing the bead.

However, laying silicone down in a corner with a very rough surface
against a smooth surface is certainly the litmus test to prove one's
skill.
--
-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
whit3rd
2017-11-27 10:18:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Colin Campbell
In my work, I install basement egress windows, which we make from vinyl
composite materials. The windows are replacements or upgrades, going into
foundations which can be of almost any age. Frequently, I have to caulk
the join between our smooth composite frame, and the ragged parging on
the exterior foundation wall, bridging gaps ...
A bit of molding (wood or vinyl) can be scribed against a rough surface, then
carved to fit and level (and make the gaps narrow and uniform).

A diamond blade can cut a slot in masonry, there has to be a clever way to use
that. Something that blocks the caulk entry and makes an easy-fo-fill shallow gap.
dadiOH
2017-11-27 13:23:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Colin Campbell
The subject says most of it, and I'm hoping the assembled wisdom here
will forgive me if it's OT for the group.
In my work, I install basement egress windows, which we make from vinyl
composite materials. The windows are replacements or upgrades, going into
foundations which can be of almost any age. Frequently, I have to caulk
the join between our smooth composite frame, and the ragged parging on
the exterior foundation wall, bridging gaps which can vary from 1/8 or
less, to more than 3/8" or more, often in a single run. I have yet to
find a way of running a good, clean bead, and when I try to tool the
result, the mess gets worse. I've alreadfy decided to buy myself a
dripless gun, but I'd be more than grateful for suggestions about pull/
push, angled vs. square cut tip, and any other thoughts you may have.
I cheat...

1. Lots of caulk

2. Smooth/shape with thumb or finger

3. Clean off thumb or finger with paper towels.

4. If acrylic caulk, clean off work area with damp sponge
Unquestionably Confused
2017-11-27 14:01:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by dadiOH
Post by Colin Campbell
The subject says most of it, and I'm hoping the assembled wisdom here
will forgive me if it's OT for the group.
In my work, I install basement egress windows, which we make from vinyl
composite materials. The windows are replacements or upgrades, going into
foundations which can be of almost any age. Frequently, I have to caulk
the join between our smooth composite frame, and the ragged parging on
the exterior foundation wall, bridging gaps which can vary from 1/8 or
less, to more than 3/8" or more, often in a single run. I have yet to
find a way of running a good, clean bead, and when I try to tool the
result, the mess gets worse. I've alreadfy decided to buy myself a
dripless gun, but I'd be more than grateful for suggestions about pull/
push, angled vs. square cut tip, and any other thoughts you may have.
I cheat...
1. Lots of caulk
2. Smooth/shape with thumb or finger
3. Clean off thumb or finger with paper towels.
4. If acrylic caulk, clean off work area with damp sponge
Doesn't matter where I heard it, I guess, but with the acrylic/silicone
caulk, dip your finger in a bit of water with dish washing soap mixed
in. AND use paper towels or. . . to keep that finger smooth and slick
and not gunked up.
-MIKE-
2017-11-27 16:32:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Unquestionably Confused
Post by dadiOH
Post by Colin Campbell
The subject says most of it, and I'm hoping the assembled wisdom here
will forgive me if it's OT for the group.
In my work, I install basement egress windows, which we make from vinyl
composite materials. The windows are replacements or upgrades, going into
foundations which can be of almost any age. Frequently, I have to caulk
the join between our smooth composite frame, and the ragged parging on
the exterior foundation wall, bridging gaps which can vary from 1/8 or
less, to more than 3/8" or more, often in a single run. I have yet to
find a way of running a good, clean bead, and when I try to tool the
result, the mess gets worse. I've alreadfy decided to buy myself a
dripless gun, but I'd be more than grateful for suggestions about pull/
push, angled vs. square cut tip, and any other thoughts you may have.
I cheat...
1. Lots of caulk
2. Smooth/shape with thumb or finger
3. Clean off thumb or finger with paper towels.
4.  If acrylic caulk, clean off work area with damp sponge
Doesn't matter where I heard it, I guess, but with the acrylic/silicone
caulk, dip your finger in a bit of water with dish washing soap mixed
in.  AND use paper towels or. . . to keep that finger smooth and slick
and not gunked up.
I keep a "just rung-out" shop towel in my tool belt or hanging out a
pocket.
A dry shop/paper towel to get the bulk of the excess caulk off the
finger, then down to my pants leg (work pants are perfect for it and the
latex comes out in the wash), then a swipe on the wet towel before
smoothing the next line.

The trick is (as in painting) keep all dried caulk off your finger, like
you say.
Once dry caulk mixes with wet caulk, all hell breaks loose. :-)
--
-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
-MIKE-
2017-11-27 16:26:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by dadiOH
Post by Colin Campbell
The subject says most of it, and I'm hoping the assembled wisdom here
will forgive me if it's OT for the group.
In my work, I install basement egress windows, which we make from vinyl
composite materials. The windows are replacements or upgrades, going into
foundations which can be of almost any age. Frequently, I have to caulk
the join between our smooth composite frame, and the ragged parging on
the exterior foundation wall, bridging gaps which can vary from 1/8 or
less, to more than 3/8" or more, often in a single run. I have yet to
find a way of running a good, clean bead, and when I try to tool the
result, the mess gets worse. I've alreadfy decided to buy myself a
dripless gun, but I'd be more than grateful for suggestions about pull/
push, angled vs. square cut tip, and any other thoughts you may have.
I cheat...
1. Lots of caulk
2. Smooth/shape with thumb or finger
3. Clean off thumb or finger with paper towels.
4. If acrylic caulk, clean off work area with damp sponge
I don't think that's cheating at all.
If fact, if you changed no.1 to "sufficient caulk" that list might
qualify as good instructions.
--
-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
Electric Comet
2017-11-27 16:45:18 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 00:27:38 -0000 (UTC)
single run. I have yet to find a way of running a good, clean bead,
and when I try to tool the result, the mess gets worse. I've alreadfy
decided to buy myself a dripless gun, but I'd be more than grateful
for suggestions about pull/ push, angled vs. square cut tip, and any
other thoughts you may have.
use gloves and work it by hand


also do not buy cheap caulking

made the mistake with no shrink caulking that has since shrunk


there are too many options to bother suggesting one

the best thing to do is go to a local supplier and not a big box
and talk to informed staff about your application

or research it yourself

doing both is best
DerbyDad03
2017-11-27 19:57:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Electric Comet
On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 00:27:38 -0000 (UTC)
single run. I have yet to find a way of running a good, clean bead,
and when I try to tool the result, the mess gets worse. I've alreadfy
decided to buy myself a dripless gun, but I'd be more than grateful
for suggestions about pull/ push, angled vs. square cut tip, and any
other thoughts you may have.
use gloves and work it by hand
Use gloves for what?
Iggy
2017-11-27 18:14:06 UTC
Permalink
replying to Colin Campbell, Iggy wrote:
Against smooth surfaces no problem, of course. But, stucco and the sort either
has to go DadiOH's or Whit3rd's way. But, if you can get tape to stick
temporarily, it helps a lot to avoid catches on the sharp stuff and when the
tape's removed a clean edge is left. Just make sure you're using Backer Rod
and not caulking more than a 1/4" deep.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/woodworking/caulking-against-rough-surfaces-812585-.htm
dadiOH
2017-11-27 19:29:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Iggy
Against smooth surfaces no problem, of course. But, stucco and the sort either
has to go DadiOH's or Whit3rd's way. But, if you can get tape to stick
temporarily, it helps a lot to avoid catches on the sharp stuff and when the
tape's removed a clean edge is left. Just make sure you're using Backer Rod
and not caulking more than a 1/4" deep.
If one wants to take the time to mask, it will certainly help tremendpusly.
Getting tape to stick to stucco or other rough surface can be iffy though.
I press the tape on with my fingers then lay a dry kitchen sponge on it and
whack the sponge with a rubber hammer...place sponge...whack...move
sponge...whack...etc. The sponge will deform to conform to the irregular
surface and press the tape tightly against it.
John Grossbohlin
2017-11-27 22:27:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Colin Campbell
The subject says most of it, and I'm hoping the assembled wisdom here
will forgive me if it's OT for the group.
In my work, I install basement egress windows, which we make from vinyl
composite materials. The windows are replacements or upgrades, going into
foundations which can be of almost any age. Frequently, I have to caulk
the join between our smooth composite frame, and the ragged parging on
the exterior foundation wall, bridging gaps which can vary from 1/8 or
less, to more than 3/8" or more, often in a single run. I have yet to
find a way of running a good, clean bead, and when I try to tool the
result, the mess gets worse. I've alreadfy decided to buy myself a
dripless gun, but I'd be more than grateful for suggestions about pull/
push, angled vs. square cut tip, and any other thoughts you may have.
One thing that I found helps when there are gaps that vary, such as you
describe, is the use of backer foam. The backer foam, when set below the
surface a bit, allows the caulk to lay into the gap much more evenly than it
does when trying to fill in big wide gap with just caulk. In extreme cases
I've used different diameter backer foam for different areas of the gap...

For example: https://www.homedepot.com/s/backer%2520foam?NCNI-5
Sonny
2017-11-28 14:28:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Colin Campbell
Frequently, I have to caulk
the join between our smooth composite frame, and the ragged parging on
the exterior foundation wall, bridging gaps which can vary from 1/8 or
less, to more than 3/8" or more, often in a single run.
Cheers,
Colin
Also, if the gaps are deep, it might help if you stuff a backer rod in the gap, prior to caulking.

Sonny

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